Information: Don’t give just because you’re asked…
August 21st, 2007 by Frank
Went into the bank recently to open an account, had all the required identification etc and was given a form to fill out. When I handed it back the teller pointed at the blank field ‘Annual Gross Income’ or something and asked me to fill it out. “I’d rather not” I replied.
The teller explained I had to fill in the form, and I asked if they specifically needed me to fill in that field to open an account. Yes, they need the whole form filled, or somesuch answer came back. So, being the awkward bollocks that I am I asked why they needed it.
“So we know what amounts we are dealing with” was the reply. I pointed to the check box where I had indicated my wages would not be paid into the account and I explained that my wages would not be going into the account at all. “Well we need a general idea”, I further explained that I had a specific purpose for the account in mind and I assured the teller that knowing my income would not indicate at all the amounts that would be going through the account.
I asked again if the information was definitely needed and was told it was. I, pedantically, asked if the teller was certain. Yes, the teller was certain - “We require that information”. “But I don’t wish to share it”, I replied.
At this point the teller, who in fariness seemed to be quite understanding of my stance, didn’t seem quite sure how to proceed, so they went and consulted with a colleague.
When they returned they explained that if I required a credit card or a loan the information would be needed, but otherwise I could put down “Not applicable”. I wrote N/A in the field and thanked the teller for all their help.
Despite being told several times that the information was needed, it turns out that it’s not needed except under certain circumstances. I don’t think it’s any of their business what I earn. I think too many organisations know too much about me, and I get sick of being asked so many things about myself that they obviously don’t need to know for the purposes I wish to utilise these organisations for.
Is it just me? Am I just a cranky bastard? I think I will get one of the t-shirts pictured…
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August 21st, 2007 at 10:21 am
No, I don’t think you’re being a cranky bastard Frank. It was probably for their marketing department or something. Opening an account has gotten more difficult recently with thorough checks needed to ascertain identity and other measures needed to counter money laundering, fraud, etc.
August 21st, 2007 at 10:59 am
Had a similar experience over the ‘how much do you earn’ question, but with a telephone company rather than a bank.
Maybe it’s because I used to send junk mail (aka Direct marketing) in a previous life, but I’ll only give this information if there’s a clear benefit to me.
Paul
August 21st, 2007 at 12:19 pm
Well done for sticking to your guns. It takes unbelievable tenacity….Most people are consumer morons and will do what their told because ” thats the way it is ” …..
The teller’s know no better, thats why they’re employed in the position in the first place.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:02 pm
Give the teller a break Rich, your attitude shows no respect for people out there doing their best while you piss around playing with your computer all day or whatever. Working life in the service sector is tough enough without having to deal with a bunch of superior, know it all cyber critics like yourself. Yet you’re the first ones to cry loudest over the slightest little hic-up like spoilt children. Same as that clown and the lost baggage in Dublin recently, getting all worked up about nothing.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:05 pm
‘It takes unbelievable tenacity,’ more of it! Unbelievable tenacity my arse!
August 21st, 2007 at 1:26 pm
I think you’re getting worked up a little prematurely there martin - why not simply ask rich for a clarification on what he meant before lashing out there…
I see where you’re coming from, but in my reading of Rich’s comment I didn’t pick up on the disrespect you did, I simply thought he was saying that tellers are placed in a position where they are to get the form filled - they are not equipped with the information to deal with langers like me on purpose.
You know, like plausible deniability in reverse in a way… it’s the lower echelons are kept in the dark, not the higher echelons!
August 21st, 2007 at 1:31 pm
Definitely a cranky bastard. Banks are offering a service. If you don’t like the terms and conditions under which they are offering said service, take your business elsewhere rather than pretending you are some latter-day Thomas Paine.
August 21st, 2007 at 1:44 pm
The terms and conditions of the service did not actually include having to share my earnings with the bank… so I’m not sure what you are saying.
Are you saying the terms and conditions of any service extend to whatever they feel like asking you and you should comply?
August 21st, 2007 at 1:49 pm
Right, analyse this, ‘Most people are consumer morons and will do what their told because â€? thats the way it is â€? ….. , ok,so first off Rich is placing himself away from the herd, singling himself out as different, special and privy to special knowledge. To me that sentiment smacks of pure elitism and disrespect for others; this in turn is compounded by his, ‘The teller’s(sic) know no better, thats(sic) why they’re employed in the position in the first place.’ That’s the way I read the text anyway Frank, and that’s what I reacted to. Maybe Rich himself could come back and elucidate.
What’s plausible deniability, be it backwards or forwards Frank?
August 21st, 2007 at 2:45 pm
Plausible deniability is, to give a common example, where the CIA do not inform the US President of dodgy stuff they do, though they have an implicit green light for them, so that the President can say he knew nothing about them.
August 21st, 2007 at 2:56 pm
Ok, that’s good to know, thanks!
August 21st, 2007 at 3:26 pm
Martin,
Your right I’m different and celebrate others who are also and although I don’t think you’re a moron, I do wonder, all be it briefly, why you do your best to give the impression otherwise..
deiseach,
Banks are unlike most other private or public companies offering a service in that legislation requires you to avail of their services like it or not in order to carry on a whole variety of activities. Therefore the hoops you must jump through should also be closely regulated. The fact that they clearly tried to deceive Frank into beliving the information they sought was mandatory using the application form and the engineered ignorance of their agent is the hub of the matter the way I see it.
August 21st, 2007 at 4:14 pm
That’s a bit rich coming from you Rich.
I think in the final analysis you’ll discover you’re not really that different from any of the other 4.5 billion carbon based Homo Sapiens on this planet-if you are explain it the Grim Reaper when the time comes and see if you can negotiate some kind of reprieve for your own unique, precious self. And I’d wager you’re a fairly avid consumer yourself of goods others would consider moronic. I certainly can’t see you producing anything of worth judging by your comments.
To top it all off your spelling is lousy. You all have a nice day now!
August 21st, 2007 at 5:21 pm
Go on Martin, claim him!!
August 21st, 2007 at 11:53 pm
Even though I would have just filled out the form myself and thought nothing of it I think you were spot on in your actions. There is way too much personal information out there and you never know when it’s coming back to bite you in the bollox.
The banks have no right, mandate or authority to investigate anything to do with your personal finances. Given their complicity in the rampant corruption in this country over the last few years they never should have such a mandate!
This was clearly a marketing ploy but it does hide the under lying issue… What really frightens me is the amount of info the likes of Google, yahoo or msn have on people! All your purchases, your website memberships, emails, jobs you’ve applied for… It may seem innocuous now but the consequences could be disastrous in years to come.
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:01 am
Google will own us. No doubt.
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:03 am
I fear you might be right!
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:33 am
Well said Dave! On that theme, how about this: what if the anti-viral software you download or purchase does exactly the opposite to what is says on the tin? Instead of protecting you, it acts as a reverse portal on you, taking in and recording all your on-line activity? Or consider, if you would, many of those outrageous sites out there, be they pornographic, racist, or just plain demented are set there like traps? Or imagine this-you’re web-cam perched up their on top of the monitor is filming you 24/7, even when it appears to be switched off. Who knows, might be happening?
Then again is all this technically possible-is there enough storage out there? I don’t know but then again the theoretical extrapolations are worrying enough.
Whatever the practicalities we definitely need to consider how much we want to place our trust in this information technology. For example, electronic voting systems. I don’t think we should trust anybody without a paperless voting system. Not only that, but election counts are part of the great political tradition of this country and are a proud demonstration of the democratic system in place. Long may they continue!
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:45 am
Reading your post there again Dave I came upon this rather obvious dichotomy. You said, ‘The banks have no right, mandate or authority to investigate anything to do with your personal finances.’ A bit suspect, eh Dave, when you consider that banks are for the most part peoples’ finances because in effect at the end of the day they work for the banks?
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:47 am
I’m sure some of what you suggest may very well be happening… maybe the web cam thing is a bit far fetched?
As a society we have placed a lot of trust in people whom we don’t know and who are not accountable to us but maybe this is all a bit “conspiracy theory!”
I agree about the whole voting thing by the way. There is a lot to be said of tradition and I think counting votes is one we should keep.
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:54 am
How far fetched though?
The FBI were able to remotely activate amobile phone microphones to eavesdrop on mafia fellas…
Goodnight!
August 22nd, 2007 at 12:57 am
Spooky Frank, I just clicked on the link and got an error 404 message. Could have sworn I saw my webcam move too!
August 22nd, 2007 at 3:02 am
I think you know what I meant Martin… The banks have no mandate to investigate where our money comes from, where it goes to or what we spend it on!
August 22nd, 2007 at 10:08 am
I don’t know Dave, that’s a bit like saying your doctor has no right to your medical history when treating you.
August 22nd, 2007 at 11:05 am
No Martin, its a bit like saying your doctor can ask you if you’ve had un protected sex recently to assertain where the rash might have come from but he has no right to ask you whom with!
August 22nd, 2007 at 7:39 pm
I never really cared for splitting hairs Dave, and arguing for argument’s sake interests me even less so. Besides, the doctor would of course ask you from whom you may have got that unfortunate rash in order to treat that person too. Anyway, talk to you again soon hopefully. Enjoy this blast of sun we’re having. Peace and love!
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:05 pm
Have you seen this Frank-http://youtube.com/watch?v=nUDIoN-_Hxs
Absolutely beautiful, well up until the start of the 20th century anyway. What does that say about how the modern world perceives beauty and life in general? He also has one called 500 women from film, showing the stars from film’s beginnings right up to today.
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:30 pm
You seem to thrive on for both splitting hairs and argument for arguments sake Martin to be fair.
I certainly think you are not as stupid as you let on but please know that with some of your silly attempts to impress you do anything but!
Cool youtube video by the way.
August 22nd, 2007 at 8:55 pm
Too much bitching going on lately… everybody play nice!!!
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:20 pm
What silly attempts to impress Dave? Look, I call things the way I see them, and when I see inconsistencies in someone’s dialectic I highlight them, simple as that. I don’t set out to impress people in real life and I don’t do it here; I’m content in my self and neither desire nor solicit the approval of others, especially people I don’t even know like yourself.
When it comes to an exchange of opinions I say what I believe and I stand over that; that’s what I thought these on-line forums were for-free speech and debate, with the added bonus of a bit of craic thrown in.
And what if, just what if, I am indeed as stupid as you perceive me to be? What of it? What’s the pressure here to be so polished, urbane and smooth in prose and in thought? Call me stupid if you want, I don’t care, it still won’t change the way I react to what I see as stupidity. So you see, we can all run around the playground calling each other silly all day Dave but I think you’ll find it gets fairly boring after a while.
Anyway, if you enjoyed the last youtube, check this one out
http://youtube.com/watch?v=wFZevw1AHZs
What do you think? Is it genuine? He’s got more in there too, just type billy’s balls into the youtube search box. Enjoy!
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:21 pm
You’re right Frank, far too much bitching here lately.
August 22nd, 2007 at 9:42 pm
Does anyone know how I could download a song I’m looking for either legally or illegally without a credit card or an Itunes account? Isn’t there some way you can pay for a tune by texting in or something? I normally use soulseek but they don’t seem to have the song I’m looking for-The Mediterranean, by the Beautiful South. I’m going on holidays soon you see, South of France on the The Mediterranean coast, and would like to have this song get me in the mood. Thanks!
August 23rd, 2007 at 12:13 am
RedFM have something whereby you can text them when you hear a song on their radio station. You can then download it from them or something not sure how it all works really but it might be worth checking out.
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:21 am
Would the doctor refuse to treat you if you did not tell him who you has slept with?
QED
August 23rd, 2007 at 1:56 pm
Cheers Eoin, I might end up just buying the CD. Someone once said that almost every home in UK had a Beautiful South CD lying about somewhere.
They split up recently so there might be a jumbo best of coming out as well. Dave, l couldn’t be bothered boy, you heard what Frank said. Then again, ‘who you has slept with…..?’ Lol!
August 23rd, 2007 at 2:48 pm
I wouldn’t expect any more from you Martin.
Do you think that the banks- private companies whose mission is to make as much money as possible for their share holders or owners- should be given the authority by the state to investigate people’s personal finances?
They are required by law to keep records so they can be audited by the revenue commissioner, criminal assets bureau, tribunals or another properly appointed state body. As part of our democratic society these bodies must follow rules and regulations which dictate when and under which circumstances a person’s finances can be investigated. The banks are not tasked or allowed to conduct any sort of investigations themselves.
Now you can hide behind Frank’s comment on bitching if you like. I can assure you this is not me being bitchy. If you want to debate an issue then do so. If you want to criticise my argument then by all means please do, I enjoy being challenged- it makes me think about my opinions and sometimes helps me reassess my position on issues. But given some of your comments since I started posting on here to myself, Frank and Ed I think you should come down off your high horse.
August 23rd, 2007 at 3:34 pm
Dave, if you’ve problems with the banks keep your cash under the mattress. They provide a service as mentioned before, they’re the instruments of fiscal fluidity in any society. You’re getting all indignant over an inconsequential matter, because at the end of the day the banks probably know how much everyone is earning anyway and so the argument is redundant.
I can see you now going in cap in hand all humble looking for more credit to keep your lifestyle going while at the same time coming on here and giving it one about proper banking practice. It’s not even that important Dave, at the end of the day it’s only money. The big wheels will keep on rolling no matter how much you shout your head off about small-print arguments-basta!
August 23rd, 2007 at 3:52 pm
Now a different issue would be how much knowledge about you an insurance , life assurance, or health insurance company should be privy too when deciding whether to give you a policy or not and at what premium. I’ve heard said that when applying for such a policy one of the questions on the form is whether or not you’ve ever had a HIV test. If you say yes, even though you tested negative, the policy may be refused.
Genetic profiling is the thing to worry about, when companies are privy to the very stuff that makes you up-that must never be allowed to happen. You can expect to see a lot more debate there about that issue.
August 23rd, 2007 at 3:53 pm
I have some Beautiful South stuff Martin, the old best of I think. I think I have some Housemartins around somewhere too. What are you looking for?
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Go on then… state your case
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:03 pm
Even better start a post on it for all to see and lets talk about it
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:04 pm
There’s a tune called Mediterranean, beautiful tune, on their album Paint It Red; it also appears on their mid-career compilation Solid Bronze. If you have it I’d be a happy camper. Thanks Frank, nice of you to offer. I saw a great documentary on Paul Mearton some time back, interesting guy and very, very talented.
I met him once, the band were doing a promotional tour of Germany and I got invited along to a live session at the studios of Radio Hamburg where they sang and met with fans. I was a bit starstruck I suppose and started talking to the female singer-at that time it was the girl with the long hair, don’t know her name I’m afraid. Anyway, I wanted to make conversation, be friendly and all that, but the only thing I managed to blurt out to her was, ‘So what are you up to tonight?’ It came out all wrong and she just looked at me smiled and said, ‘Don’t think so, I need a little time by myself.’ Then she left and I was left standing there like an idiot. Still, it’s a story I suppose.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:08 pm
I just stated my case Dave. As for starting a post, that’s up to Frank, and honestly I don’t have the time right now for researching the topic. Maybe sometime when I’m back after my holidays.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:11 pm
You could start here Dave,-http://www.hgc.gov.uk/UploadDocs/Contents/Documents/Final%20Draft%20of%20Profiling%20Newborn%20Report%2003%2005.pdf
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:11 pm
Ooops!
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:13 pm
Ha ha ha - good story… I like it… anyway, I don’t have that tune but I do have an iTunes account and would be more than happy to get it for you if you like. It’s only 99c sure, what’s that between friends?
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:16 pm
Nice one Frank! Can you then send that on to me electronically? Give me your bank details and I’ll transfer the 99c-in strictest confidence of course;)
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:21 pm
Enjoy your holidays Martin, I hope you get your song.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:23 pm
I’ll sort something out alright. of course then I’ll delete it from my own hard drive. *cough*
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:26 pm
Nice one Dave, leaving next Friday. Three weeks in the golden sunshine of Languedoc. Doing a diving course as well, something I always wanted to do. Anyway, you and I should try and get along better. Argument is good and valid, but sometimes it just gets petty and nasty and I feel bad about that. I’d say we have a lot more in common then would appear. We should use this excellent blog more constructively to discuss the issues of the day as they affect us. Peace and love!
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:31 pm
The genetic profiling link doesn’t work but if you google genetic profiling you’ll get loads on it. The report I sent on is fourth or fifth down the list.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:34 pm
Oh, and apropos nothing, a friend is running a speed dating event tonight in the Spalpin Fanach. Apparently she’s got loads of single women going but not enough men. Going by the supply and demand maxim this could be our big chance! Further infos on polkadots-n-pinstripes.com
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:39 pm
I’m lucky enough to be practically married so I’ll let you at it! Bon chance
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:42 pm
Fair play! It’s not something I’d normally go in for, but heck, why not try it for the laugh. None of us is getting any younger I suppose and this is no rehearsal. I’ll let you know how I get on, or get off!!
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:50 pm
Could be the perfect start to your holidays
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:55 pm
You’d never know Dave. Been on holidays yourself this year? Maybe we could do a travel post, looking out for good value holidays or breaks away. That might be interesting.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:56 pm
Sounds like a laugh. Don’t think Audrey would approve of me going along with you.
August 23rd, 2007 at 4:59 pm
Yeah, but there’s space for people you just want to hang out too, the buddy lounge it’s called. I’ll be there from about eight on this evening if you fancy coming down for the craic.
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:01 pm
Only Paris and South of France for two long weekends this year and a bit of sailing in june, study is eating into my holiday time from work and mortgage eating into my bank balance (to continue the theme!) Going to Warsaw in October for a stag, never been there b4 so any advice most welcome.
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:14 pm
You sail? Cool! I was in Warsaw last summer as it happens. Throw out any notions you might have that Poland is somehow backward, Warsaw is an amazingly modern city with skyscrapers a plenty. It struck me as being like an American city. The old town was destroyed by the Nazis who had a plan to turn Warsaw into a big lake-no joke. After the war the old town was rebuilt faithfully and that is now the main tourist attraction there. Thing is though it feels a bit like Disneyland or something because the organic, historic feel is missing when you compare it to let’s say Krakow which was spared in WW2. It’s a buzzing city with great night life-underground jazz clubs and many newer, upmarket bars. Food and drink is excellent, and also great value for money. A beer, and it’s good stuff too, costs about €1. You can also climb the huge monolithic Palace of Cultures there-if you have no problems with heights-, a huge building made as a gift to the Poles from Stalin. There’s always interesting exhibitions on there and the view from the top is amazing. You can walk along the river Vistula, an impressive majestic river with lots of cafes and bars along it. Chopin’s heart is buried in the column of the cathedrael there, and if you’re into music there’s plenty of concerts always going on. We stayed in a place called the blue hostel, hostels are great over there, cheap and well run. You’ll have a great time there Dave, just take it easy with the booze and you’ll enjoy it a lot more.
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:17 pm
Not suggesting you’ve a problem with booze or anything, but you know what I mean, there’s more to see than the pubs!
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:35 pm
Nice one Martin, I’ll tap you for more info closer to the date… I’m a vodka man and usually a sensible one… although the last eastern European stag I was on was the thing of legend! I’m definitely of the opinion that you got to make an attempt to go see a city if you’ve gone to the trouble of going there!
I’ve always loved the sea and the best way to enjoy is under sail… I’ll take you out some time but we’ll have to agree topics for conversation first to avoid a mutiny!
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:36 pm
Aye, aye Captain!
August 23rd, 2007 at 5:41 pm
Well, if you’re a vodka man you’re going to the right place. The Poles have a huge range of vodkas of varying quality, some are flavoured with things like aniseed and fruit berries etc. Again, the prices will astound you. That’s what I really liked about the place, the range of products on offer. Indigenous breweries and distilleries produce many fine drinks. When you think of what’s on offer here it’s all a bit homogeneous by comparison. I’m all for regional variety and choices when it comes to food and drink.
August 24th, 2007 at 11:22 am
So, there I was speed dating last night, something I thought I’d never do. But I have to say it was great-a refreshingly honest way to meet someone. The girls were all very well turned out, some were prettier than others, but they were all lovely people, and as a male it was kind of flattering to be able to speak to so many women on one night without having that desperate ‘will I, won’t I’, feeling that goes on in your head at say a club or in a bar.
Having done it last night, I’d definitely recommend it to anyone looking for someone special. I got to ‘date’ eight girls and ticked off two as having potential; if they tick me as well I get their details. Even if they didn’t tick me it doesn’t matter-I had a good night out and now count myself a wiser man when it comes to the intricate workings of the desirous female heart.
August 24th, 2007 at 5:10 pm
What if they both tick you Martin? How do you decide?
August 24th, 2007 at 6:19 pm
Well what happens Eoin is if the girl you tick ticks you then the organiser passes on your telephone numbers to each of you. It’s up to you then to make contact again and organise your own second meeting alone. Now, if that happens twice then you can just meet the pair of them (probably best done on two separate occasions!) and decide which you like best. Or if you’re generous with your loving you can hold on to both of them, convert to Islam and keep the two for good!
I got my feedback today by text-two ticks;however, not from the two girls I ticked so I guess that’s that then. Still, nice to think someone gave a thicko like me a tick!
I think it’s on again next month if you’re interested Eoin, as I said I’d recommend it.
August 24th, 2007 at 6:47 pm
Sorry Eoin, I gave you the wrong information there. Just got another text-with the numbers of the two girls who ticked me, even though I didn’t tick them. That’s the way it is-if someone ticks you you get their number. Sorry about misinformation earlier.
August 24th, 2007 at 10:15 pm
Well that sounds promising Martin. Best of luck with that. It’s not a bad system really.
I’m in a relationship at the moment so, unless she sees through my charming facade before next moths meeting, I won’t be going along.
March 5th, 2008 at 11:32 pm
Learn facts about the life insurance industry…
Information on the life insurance industry…