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	<title>Comments on: The next Batman villain&#8230;</title>
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		<title>By: Continentalop</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-165981</link>
		<dc:creator>Continentalop</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Mar 2009 08:10:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-165981</guid>
		<description>Ok, I have thought about this long and hard and the villain I think the main villain in the next Nolan Batman movie should be…(drum roll please)…the Penguin. Yeah, I know a lot of people out there are against the Penguin, and I know Chris Nolan has stated that he believes the Penguin would be one of the harder villains to pull off, but I humbly disagree. Bare with me as I list the reasons why I think he would work and why I think he is one of the best, most unappreciated Batman foes, as well as counter some familiar criticism about him:  
1) He is realistic: The thing about the Penguin, like almost all of Batman&#039;s Golden Age foes, is that technically he his not a super-villain - he is an arch criminal. And there is a big differenced between the two. A super-villain is just the evil version of a super-hero, someone who possesses powers and abilities beyond us, while an arch-criminal is a specific type of criminal in the real world but shown in a larger than life manner. Catwoman is the femme fatale/cat-burglar writ large; Joker is the psychotic anarchist criminal; Two-Face is the idea of victim turned criminal; hell, Batman isn’t even a superhero in the original comics or Nolan’s series, he is a classic pulp masked vigilante, more akin to the Shadow, the Spider, The Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro than Superman or Spider-Man. The Penguin fits right in there with that same vibe, since he represents the professional, organized criminal (with an added touch of being flamboyant and stylish). Having said that, it makes it easier for me to believe that a flamboyant gangster with an gun hidden in an umbrella fits Nolan’s universe more than a man with a freeze gun or a woman who can control plants does. 

As an arch-version of a gangster, have the Penguin be the new crime boss in Gotham. With all the chaos that the Joker caused, it wouldn’t be that hard to believe that the underworld would be turning to someone to bring order and help them reorganize, and I could even see the normal citizens and politicians of Gotham support him. After the fall of Saddam in Iraq, chaos reigned in Iraq and one of the big fears amongst our politicians and military experts was that the people of Gotham would turn to a strongman and dictator preferring tyranny to anarchy. Same thing happened in Germany after WWI when Hitler rose to power. Well, after Batman smashed the mobs to only have the Joker fill their void; I can easily see the people of Gotham saying they wouldn’t mind a strong organized crime boss keeping the crooks in line – they might still have crime but at least the wouldn’t have anarchy. And from such roots tyrannies are built. 

 2) He is both dangerous and intelligent:&lt;/b&gt; The Penguin in his early history wasn’t nearly as ridiculous or as incompetent as he is now. In his first couple of appearances he killed people, maybe not as often as the Joker but he definitely had a ruthless streak. He also was the first villain to actually escape from Batman and outsmart him. The Joker got busted by Batman in all of his first appearance (or at least appeared to mysteriously die), but not the Penguin; an actual running theme in all of Penguin’s early stories was that he somehow managed to escape. This only stopped after the editorial staff demanded that the Joker stop killing people and the Penguin stopped getting away because they felt it showed that crime did pay. 

The other thing about being intelligent means he plots. He has his own goals and ambitions which do not always involve Batman. What realistic plots could Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Bane or Deadshot have? I mean, Bane and Deadshot would have only one goal/plot – kill Batman. Doesn’t really give the screenwriter’s much to work with. The Penguin, on the other hand, would want to pull of crimes, become the boss of Gotham AND kill Batman (or at least neutralize him). Plenty of more material for the screenwriters to work with. 

3) “But isn’t he ridiculous and corny?”: He was not nearly as cheesy as Joker was in the late 40’s through the 60’s. Sure he used trick umbrellas, but Joker was doing just as corny things, like having his own utility belt or trying to have a contest with Clay-Face. And while Joker was allowed to be updated and modernized, for some reason the Penguin has been forced to stay in same old character-mold when Burgess Meredith did him. That would be like letting the Caesar Romero interpretation of the Joker be the definitive one.

However, if I can offer a suggestion to help make the Penguin relevant again, it would for him to lose the top hat and tuxedo (or at least not wear it all the time). When he originally appeared that was the clothes of choice for a sophisticated gentleman going out on the town, but not anymore. He should be dressed in sartorial splendor by today’s standards, wearing Armani and Brioni suits, with Seville Row shirts and an expensive Burberry coats, and replacing his cigarette holder for expensive cigars. I mean if Lex Luthor can get a makeover and not have to wear the lab coat or the grey smock he wore when he first appeared, why does the Penguin have to so fashionably out of date? 

And yes he has a funny name and appearance, but who says criminal masterminds have to be scary looking? I mean, look at the history of the mob in the U.S and you’ll see that most crime bosses had funny nicknames and were not that intimidating looking: Tony The Ant, Joey the Clown, Murray “the Camel” Humphreys, Vinnie the Chin, etc. Crossed them, however, and you’d be wearing concrete shoes at the bottom of Gotham Bay. Make the Penguin a short, sartorially aware crime boss who earned his nickname because of his walk (imagine Vito from the Sopranos) and uses an umbrella as a cane just like how some people use a putter as a cane. 

And the thing about the Penguin is that he supposed to be underestimated. It is the reason the umbrella was chosen as his weapon – it serves as a metaphor for the Penguin’s character and nature. Like his umbrellas, the Penguin appears as something completely harmless and even mundane, but also like his umbrellas it actually conceals something very deadly that people completely underestimate. The umbrella doesn’t have to be outfitted with a hundred different weapons, just the ones he had when he first appeared – a concealed blade and gun (plus it is weighted to be used as a bludgeon).

Besides, who says ridiculous looking people can’t be powerful or scary? I mean, the world was terrorized by a short little Corsican in the early 19th century, and in the 20th century an Austrian painter with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and a tendency to yell comically during rallies became the greatest villain in history.

4) Go back to the basics: Just like how Nolan only used those elements from the Joker that would fit his version of Batman, so could Nolan cherry pick through the Penguin and only use those elements that mesh with his vision. I mean, Nolan pretty much discarded anything about the Joker post 1940’s, getting rid of the entire Red Hood origin and focusing only on his first couple of appearances. Well, the same could be done with the Penguin: hell, his real name of Oswald Cobblepot wasn’t revealed until 1981 in DC Comics Blue Ribbon Digest, along with his origin of being a rich kid raised by an over protective mother. For 40 some years he wasn’t hampered by that ridiculous back-story and tacky name, but instead was just a sophisticated criminal who had an interesting nickname and gimmick (umbrellas and birds). That leaves you plenty of room to reinterpret him. 

Like the Joker, they should avoid an origin story and have the Penguin entire as a complete character. And also like the Joker, it should be a story about the rise of the Penguin (similar to his very first appearances in the 40s). The Penguin appears, is underestimated by even the other criminals, and before anyone knows it he is the head of crime in Gotham City.

5) “But the Penguin isn’t a physical threat for Batman”: Many people will say that the Penguin would not be as intimidating or as dangerous as the Joker, and wouldn’t scare the audience as much as the Joker did, or have them view him as a big enough threat. I have to say yes and no to that idea. Yes, on a personal one-on-one basis the Penguin is not going to give Batman as good as fight as the Joker, but than again the Joker wasn’t that much of a physical threat to Batman either.  The Joker in the Dark Knight mostly challenged Batman’s belief system, not his physical safety. Also, who says that a great villain has to be a physical threat? I mean, Goldfinger and Blofield are probably Bond’s greatest challenges, and they are no matches for him physically. Same with Moriarity, Sherlock Holmes arch enemy, and Superman’s foe Lex Luthor. 

Plus, why should the Penguin be required to fight Batman one-on-one? If the Penguin truly is a criminal mastermind he would avoid confronting the Dark Knight any way he could. Why fight a master of martial arts? Instead, a smart crime boss would instead have henchmen and minions fight Batman, and some of those guys could be pretty tough. Think of Bond movies where the main villain always had one or two really tough henchmen who served him.

Or look at gangster movies like the Godfather or the Untouchables, where the big boss isn’t always the toughest guy out there. Vito and Michael Corleone are not fighters like Sonny, but ruthless crime bosses who command killers like Luca Brassi and Al Neri. Sure they are capable of killing people, but usually by being cunning and taking people by surprise. They are not soldier’s however (excluding Michael’s stint in the marines, of course) but manipulators. The same with Al Capone in the Untouchables: he might bash someone’s head in at a meeting, but that doesn’t display his toughness as much as his willingness to kill and be ruthless. He isn’t dumb enough to take on Elliot Ness himself, but instead sends his own killers such as Frank Nitti against him and his Untouchables. 

Instead of having the Penguin physically confront Batman, have some of his henchmen confront the Caped Crusader. Amongst his servants could be a who’s who of tough-guy character actors: Chuck Zito, Danny Trejo, Kimbo Slice, Tyler Mane, Brock Lesnar, etc.

6) The Penguin could represent a new type of villain and be more relevant: The Joker (and Scarecrow and Ra’s al Ghul) are basically metaphors for terrorism and the anarchistic, nihilistic forces out there. And since 9-11 that has been the public’s biggest worry. But since the collapse of the economy I believe people will have find someone new that they hate more, and that is CEOs, the heads of Wall Streets and politicians. Basically, all of the powerful people who they feel control their lives and they are powerless to stop because they are too rich and connected. And the Penguin can represents those forces much better than any other Batman foe could. Just like in the 50’s and 60s in such movies as Underworld USA and Point Blank, where the underworld used as a metaphor for the corporate world, so could the Penguin be used to represents the heads of businesses and the hedge fund managers who manipulate the government for their own profit. 

And like the Joker who had a philosophy why he did all of this (he was a nihilist who wanted to throw Gotham in anarchy), the Penguin would be a man who believes everyone has a price – even Batman. Sure, sometimes the price isn’t money, but if you find the right leverage anyone can be bought. Think Don Corleone, “I made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.” The Penguin is the ultimate businessman.
 
7)  And finally, look at the fake 1940’s Orson Welles’ Batman trailer on youtube. How can you say he doesn’t work as a Batman foe after looking at Edward G. Robinson’s “version” of the Penguin: 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5tJGfZsgc

Sorry to ramble on, but I am a big fan of the Penguin and think he has been getting a short end of the stick.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok, I have thought about this long and hard and the villain I think the main villain in the next Nolan Batman movie should be…(drum roll please)…the Penguin. Yeah, I know a lot of people out there are against the Penguin, and I know Chris Nolan has stated that he believes the Penguin would be one of the harder villains to pull off, but I humbly disagree. Bare with me as I list the reasons why I think he would work and why I think he is one of the best, most unappreciated Batman foes, as well as counter some familiar criticism about him:<br />
1) He is realistic: The thing about the Penguin, like almost all of Batman&#8217;s Golden Age foes, is that technically he his not a super-villain &#8211; he is an arch criminal. And there is a big differenced between the two. A super-villain is just the evil version of a super-hero, someone who possesses powers and abilities beyond us, while an arch-criminal is a specific type of criminal in the real world but shown in a larger than life manner. Catwoman is the femme fatale/cat-burglar writ large; Joker is the psychotic anarchist criminal; Two-Face is the idea of victim turned criminal; hell, Batman isn’t even a superhero in the original comics or Nolan’s series, he is a classic pulp masked vigilante, more akin to the Shadow, the Spider, The Scarlet Pimpernel and Zorro than Superman or Spider-Man. The Penguin fits right in there with that same vibe, since he represents the professional, organized criminal (with an added touch of being flamboyant and stylish). Having said that, it makes it easier for me to believe that a flamboyant gangster with an gun hidden in an umbrella fits Nolan’s universe more than a man with a freeze gun or a woman who can control plants does. </p>
<p>As an arch-version of a gangster, have the Penguin be the new crime boss in Gotham. With all the chaos that the Joker caused, it wouldn’t be that hard to believe that the underworld would be turning to someone to bring order and help them reorganize, and I could even see the normal citizens and politicians of Gotham support him. After the fall of Saddam in Iraq, chaos reigned in Iraq and one of the big fears amongst our politicians and military experts was that the people of Gotham would turn to a strongman and dictator preferring tyranny to anarchy. Same thing happened in Germany after WWI when Hitler rose to power. Well, after Batman smashed the mobs to only have the Joker fill their void; I can easily see the people of Gotham saying they wouldn’t mind a strong organized crime boss keeping the crooks in line – they might still have crime but at least the wouldn’t have anarchy. And from such roots tyrannies are built. </p>
<p> 2) He is both dangerous and intelligent: The Penguin in his early history wasn’t nearly as ridiculous or as incompetent as he is now. In his first couple of appearances he killed people, maybe not as often as the Joker but he definitely had a ruthless streak. He also was the first villain to actually escape from Batman and outsmart him. The Joker got busted by Batman in all of his first appearance (or at least appeared to mysteriously die), but not the Penguin; an actual running theme in all of Penguin’s early stories was that he somehow managed to escape. This only stopped after the editorial staff demanded that the Joker stop killing people and the Penguin stopped getting away because they felt it showed that crime did pay. </p>
<p>The other thing about being intelligent means he plots. He has his own goals and ambitions which do not always involve Batman. What realistic plots could Mr. Freeze, Poison Ivy, Bane or Deadshot have? I mean, Bane and Deadshot would have only one goal/plot – kill Batman. Doesn’t really give the screenwriter’s much to work with. The Penguin, on the other hand, would want to pull of crimes, become the boss of Gotham AND kill Batman (or at least neutralize him). Plenty of more material for the screenwriters to work with. </p>
<p>3) “But isn’t he ridiculous and corny?”: He was not nearly as cheesy as Joker was in the late 40’s through the 60’s. Sure he used trick umbrellas, but Joker was doing just as corny things, like having his own utility belt or trying to have a contest with Clay-Face. And while Joker was allowed to be updated and modernized, for some reason the Penguin has been forced to stay in same old character-mold when Burgess Meredith did him. That would be like letting the Caesar Romero interpretation of the Joker be the definitive one.</p>
<p>However, if I can offer a suggestion to help make the Penguin relevant again, it would for him to lose the top hat and tuxedo (or at least not wear it all the time). When he originally appeared that was the clothes of choice for a sophisticated gentleman going out on the town, but not anymore. He should be dressed in sartorial splendor by today’s standards, wearing Armani and Brioni suits, with Seville Row shirts and an expensive Burberry coats, and replacing his cigarette holder for expensive cigars. I mean if Lex Luthor can get a makeover and not have to wear the lab coat or the grey smock he wore when he first appeared, why does the Penguin have to so fashionably out of date? </p>
<p>And yes he has a funny name and appearance, but who says criminal masterminds have to be scary looking? I mean, look at the history of the mob in the U.S and you’ll see that most crime bosses had funny nicknames and were not that intimidating looking: Tony The Ant, Joey the Clown, Murray “the Camel” Humphreys, Vinnie the Chin, etc. Crossed them, however, and you’d be wearing concrete shoes at the bottom of Gotham Bay. Make the Penguin a short, sartorially aware crime boss who earned his nickname because of his walk (imagine Vito from the Sopranos) and uses an umbrella as a cane just like how some people use a putter as a cane. </p>
<p>And the thing about the Penguin is that he supposed to be underestimated. It is the reason the umbrella was chosen as his weapon – it serves as a metaphor for the Penguin’s character and nature. Like his umbrellas, the Penguin appears as something completely harmless and even mundane, but also like his umbrellas it actually conceals something very deadly that people completely underestimate. The umbrella doesn’t have to be outfitted with a hundred different weapons, just the ones he had when he first appeared – a concealed blade and gun (plus it is weighted to be used as a bludgeon).</p>
<p>Besides, who says ridiculous looking people can’t be powerful or scary? I mean, the world was terrorized by a short little Corsican in the early 19th century, and in the 20th century an Austrian painter with a Charlie Chaplin moustache and a tendency to yell comically during rallies became the greatest villain in history.</p>
<p>4) Go back to the basics: Just like how Nolan only used those elements from the Joker that would fit his version of Batman, so could Nolan cherry pick through the Penguin and only use those elements that mesh with his vision. I mean, Nolan pretty much discarded anything about the Joker post 1940’s, getting rid of the entire Red Hood origin and focusing only on his first couple of appearances. Well, the same could be done with the Penguin: hell, his real name of Oswald Cobblepot wasn’t revealed until 1981 in DC Comics Blue Ribbon Digest, along with his origin of being a rich kid raised by an over protective mother. For 40 some years he wasn’t hampered by that ridiculous back-story and tacky name, but instead was just a sophisticated criminal who had an interesting nickname and gimmick (umbrellas and birds). That leaves you plenty of room to reinterpret him. </p>
<p>Like the Joker, they should avoid an origin story and have the Penguin entire as a complete character. And also like the Joker, it should be a story about the rise of the Penguin (similar to his very first appearances in the 40s). The Penguin appears, is underestimated by even the other criminals, and before anyone knows it he is the head of crime in Gotham City.</p>
<p>5) “But the Penguin isn’t a physical threat for Batman”: Many people will say that the Penguin would not be as intimidating or as dangerous as the Joker, and wouldn’t scare the audience as much as the Joker did, or have them view him as a big enough threat. I have to say yes and no to that idea. Yes, on a personal one-on-one basis the Penguin is not going to give Batman as good as fight as the Joker, but than again the Joker wasn’t that much of a physical threat to Batman either.  The Joker in the Dark Knight mostly challenged Batman’s belief system, not his physical safety. Also, who says that a great villain has to be a physical threat? I mean, Goldfinger and Blofield are probably Bond’s greatest challenges, and they are no matches for him physically. Same with Moriarity, Sherlock Holmes arch enemy, and Superman’s foe Lex Luthor. </p>
<p>Plus, why should the Penguin be required to fight Batman one-on-one? If the Penguin truly is a criminal mastermind he would avoid confronting the Dark Knight any way he could. Why fight a master of martial arts? Instead, a smart crime boss would instead have henchmen and minions fight Batman, and some of those guys could be pretty tough. Think of Bond movies where the main villain always had one or two really tough henchmen who served him.</p>
<p>Or look at gangster movies like the Godfather or the Untouchables, where the big boss isn’t always the toughest guy out there. Vito and Michael Corleone are not fighters like Sonny, but ruthless crime bosses who command killers like Luca Brassi and Al Neri. Sure they are capable of killing people, but usually by being cunning and taking people by surprise. They are not soldier’s however (excluding Michael’s stint in the marines, of course) but manipulators. The same with Al Capone in the Untouchables: he might bash someone’s head in at a meeting, but that doesn’t display his toughness as much as his willingness to kill and be ruthless. He isn’t dumb enough to take on Elliot Ness himself, but instead sends his own killers such as Frank Nitti against him and his Untouchables. </p>
<p>Instead of having the Penguin physically confront Batman, have some of his henchmen confront the Caped Crusader. Amongst his servants could be a who’s who of tough-guy character actors: Chuck Zito, Danny Trejo, Kimbo Slice, Tyler Mane, Brock Lesnar, etc.</p>
<p>6) The Penguin could represent a new type of villain and be more relevant: The Joker (and Scarecrow and Ra’s al Ghul) are basically metaphors for terrorism and the anarchistic, nihilistic forces out there. And since 9-11 that has been the public’s biggest worry. But since the collapse of the economy I believe people will have find someone new that they hate more, and that is CEOs, the heads of Wall Streets and politicians. Basically, all of the powerful people who they feel control their lives and they are powerless to stop because they are too rich and connected. And the Penguin can represents those forces much better than any other Batman foe could. Just like in the 50’s and 60s in such movies as Underworld USA and Point Blank, where the underworld used as a metaphor for the corporate world, so could the Penguin be used to represents the heads of businesses and the hedge fund managers who manipulate the government for their own profit. </p>
<p>And like the Joker who had a philosophy why he did all of this (he was a nihilist who wanted to throw Gotham in anarchy), the Penguin would be a man who believes everyone has a price – even Batman. Sure, sometimes the price isn’t money, but if you find the right leverage anyone can be bought. Think Don Corleone, “I made him an offer he couldn’t refuse.” The Penguin is the ultimate businessman.</p>
<p>7)  And finally, look at the fake 1940’s Orson Welles’ Batman trailer on youtube. How can you say he doesn’t work as a Batman foe after looking at Edward G. Robinson’s “version” of the Penguin: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5tJGfZsgc" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lu5tJGfZsgc</a></p>
<p>Sorry to ramble on, but I am a big fan of the Penguin and think he has been getting a short end of the stick.</p>
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		<title>By: Ash</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-140950</link>
		<dc:creator>Ash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Jan 2009 19:33:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-140950</guid>
		<description>I have a list of 3 people who would be prefect to be a batman villian. 

James Franco fits the young edgy actor. similar to heath 
second the legend that is Daniel Day Lewis, his performance in gangs of new york is out of this world. just think of DDL as a villian he would make it seem so real you would be scared to go out at night. 
finally Javier Bardem, his performance in no country for old men is also fantasic and would make a perfect villian also. for the villians it self you have to get past the likes of the ridder whos like a low grade joker. the pegiun not real at all. Christopher nolan has made the movie real the one villian who could come in whos a real person is Black Mask, story similar to two face but more of a danger check it out. just think one of the 3 above as him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a list of 3 people who would be prefect to be a batman villian. </p>
<p>James Franco fits the young edgy actor. similar to heath<br />
second the legend that is Daniel Day Lewis, his performance in gangs of new york is out of this world. just think of DDL as a villian he would make it seem so real you would be scared to go out at night.<br />
finally Javier Bardem, his performance in no country for old men is also fantasic and would make a perfect villian also. for the villians it self you have to get past the likes of the ridder whos like a low grade joker. the pegiun not real at all. Christopher nolan has made the movie real the one villian who could come in whos a real person is Black Mask, story similar to two face but more of a danger check it out. just think one of the 3 above as him.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-137278</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jan 2009 01:22:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-137278</guid>
		<description>How about Penguin, Ventriloquist/Scarface, Riddler, Deadshot?

Penguin and Ventriloquist competing to take over the mob. Meanwhile both have hired Riddler and Deadshot respectively to bump off Batman. Riddler to get him out in the open, and Deadshot there to finish him.

Selina Kyle as the love interest. C&#039;mon, give Bruce a break. Maybe she shows her Catwoman side later in the film.

Brief glimpse of the Joker in Arkham.

Probably too many villains though. Goyer and the Nolans seem to like the rule of 2 main villains per movie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How about Penguin, Ventriloquist/Scarface, Riddler, Deadshot?</p>
<p>Penguin and Ventriloquist competing to take over the mob. Meanwhile both have hired Riddler and Deadshot respectively to bump off Batman. Riddler to get him out in the open, and Deadshot there to finish him.</p>
<p>Selina Kyle as the love interest. C&#8217;mon, give Bruce a break. Maybe she shows her Catwoman side later in the film.</p>
<p>Brief glimpse of the Joker in Arkham.</p>
<p>Probably too many villains though. Goyer and the Nolans seem to like the rule of 2 main villains per movie.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-134706</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2008 02:17:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-134706</guid>
		<description>I belive they should not even try another catwoman. Halle Berry destoryed the character in her remake. So it would be too easy. I can see Hoffman playing the penguin. But what would be a perfect match with Hoffman being the penguin is having Jonny Depp being the Riddler. Yes? No? Comments?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I belive they should not even try another catwoman. Halle Berry destoryed the character in her remake. So it would be too easy. I can see Hoffman playing the penguin. But what would be a perfect match with Hoffman being the penguin is having Jonny Depp being the Riddler. Yes? No? Comments?</p>
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		<title>By: WOW</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-134615</link>
		<dc:creator>WOW</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Dec 2008 21:14:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-134615</guid>
		<description>It would be interesting to see poison ivy, because all of the previous villains tried to corrupt batman, but failed. Poison Ivy won&#039;t need to corrupt batman with direct force, but can simply seduce batman into doing her bidding. The best way to corrupt batman is through his heart, not through destroying Gotham. And without a main girl as part of the cast, Poison Ivy would be perfect, almost acting as a love interest, but batman will overcome her in the end. 

Poison Ivy also is one of the most popular villains, and her being in the movie will bring in the $$$. 

Poison Ivy not only would be able to seduce batman, but also Gordon or Lucas Fox. And Scarecrow could return under the control of Poison Ivy, as he appeared in all the movies so far.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to see poison ivy, because all of the previous villains tried to corrupt batman, but failed. Poison Ivy won&#8217;t need to corrupt batman with direct force, but can simply seduce batman into doing her bidding. The best way to corrupt batman is through his heart, not through destroying Gotham. And without a main girl as part of the cast, Poison Ivy would be perfect, almost acting as a love interest, but batman will overcome her in the end. </p>
<p>Poison Ivy also is one of the most popular villains, and her being in the movie will bring in the $$$. </p>
<p>Poison Ivy not only would be able to seduce batman, but also Gordon or Lucas Fox. And Scarecrow could return under the control of Poison Ivy, as he appeared in all the movies so far.</p>
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		<title>By: Frank</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-131855</link>
		<dc:creator>Frank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 13:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-131855</guid>
		<description>Thanks everyone for all the great comments! Rachel Weisz as Catwoman makes a certain amount of sense alright. Someone mentioned Bob Hoskins as the Penguin, and that&#039;s actually something I&#039;d love to see - playing a realy vicious mobster Penguin. Remember him in Enemy at the Gates, roaring at the soldiers? Hell yes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks everyone for all the great comments! Rachel Weisz as Catwoman makes a certain amount of sense alright. Someone mentioned Bob Hoskins as the Penguin, and that&#8217;s actually something I&#8217;d love to see &#8211; playing a realy vicious mobster Penguin. Remember him in Enemy at the Gates, roaring at the soldiers? Hell yes.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-131834</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:12:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-131834</guid>
		<description>Interesting rumor...

Didn&#039;t think of this one. 

http://www.batman-on-film.com/BATMAN3_B3-a-go_weisz-catwoman_12-11-08.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting rumor&#8230;</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t think of this one. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.batman-on-film.com/BATMAN3_B3-a-go_weisz-catwoman_12-11-08.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.batman-on-film.com/BATMAN3_B3-a-go_weisz-catwoman_12-11-08.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Scot</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-124017</link>
		<dc:creator>Scot</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Oct 2008 17:11:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-124017</guid>
		<description>Reuben, Johnny Depp hasn&#039;t been confirmed for anything. He was simply rumored to be playing the Riddler by a bad tabloid, and then the &quot;news&quot; just exploded from there and everyone assumed it to be true without actually hearing any official word from the people who are going to be making the movie.

As for Catwoman, why don&#039;t you think that she could work in the Nolan universe? She&#039;s just as realistic as Batman is, and her story could be almost as interesting if it were accurately translated from comic to screen; a poor prostitute from Gotham&#039;s slums, inspired by the likes of Batman to become a costumed thief, and using her growing wealth to move up the social ladder to the level where she can hang out with the likes of Bruce Wayne and other members of Gotham&#039;s high society without question, and gladly being the eyecandy at all the rich parties (and discovers through the course of the movie that she is Carmine Falcone&#039;s daughter). Her moral ambiguity plays really well off of Batman, and she is one of the few characters that everyone expects to be revived in the new movie franchise, much like the Joker was one of the characters that HAD to be in the new movie universe.

As far as getting the characters that are major players in the Batman universe out of the way, they&#039;ve already done Two-Face, Joker, and Ra&#039;s Al Ghul; so Bane and Catwoman are really the only characters left that play huge roles in Batman and Wayne&#039;s life that have yet to be brought to life in a new movie. Yes, smaller characters like Scarecrow and Zsasz were fun to see on screen, much like the Riddler, the Penguin, and many other characters could possibly be fun to see in future films. However, Bane and Selina go beyond the smaller characters like Riddler and Penguin, because they have personal connections to both Bruce Wayne and Batman that can allow the plot to get more personal to the hero.

As for the limited CGI that Steve suggested would be needed to bring Bane to life on screen, I don&#039;t agree. It&#039;s only the artists whose styles were already unrealistic and highly stylized who drew Bane as being inhumanly huge in the days when he used the venom steroid. More realistic artists, like Graham Nolan, illustrated Bane as just a really big and muscular guy, but still perfectly realistic in size:

http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4977/bane22go5.jpg

http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/713/bane21ee7.jpg

And even some artists, like Norm Breyfogle, whose art style *wasn&#039;t* very realistic had enough sense to know that Bane wasn&#039;t the size of the Hulk:

http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1755/bane2je4.jpg

Black Mask is another character who I could see coming to life in Christopher Nolan&#039;s world. I wouldn&#039;t complain if I saw him as the main villain in the next movie. However, my preference would still be for Bane and Catwoman as the major villain/anti-hero for the film.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Reuben, Johnny Depp hasn&#8217;t been confirmed for anything. He was simply rumored to be playing the Riddler by a bad tabloid, and then the &#8220;news&#8221; just exploded from there and everyone assumed it to be true without actually hearing any official word from the people who are going to be making the movie.</p>
<p>As for Catwoman, why don&#8217;t you think that she could work in the Nolan universe? She&#8217;s just as realistic as Batman is, and her story could be almost as interesting if it were accurately translated from comic to screen; a poor prostitute from Gotham&#8217;s slums, inspired by the likes of Batman to become a costumed thief, and using her growing wealth to move up the social ladder to the level where she can hang out with the likes of Bruce Wayne and other members of Gotham&#8217;s high society without question, and gladly being the eyecandy at all the rich parties (and discovers through the course of the movie that she is Carmine Falcone&#8217;s daughter). Her moral ambiguity plays really well off of Batman, and she is one of the few characters that everyone expects to be revived in the new movie franchise, much like the Joker was one of the characters that HAD to be in the new movie universe.</p>
<p>As far as getting the characters that are major players in the Batman universe out of the way, they&#8217;ve already done Two-Face, Joker, and Ra&#8217;s Al Ghul; so Bane and Catwoman are really the only characters left that play huge roles in Batman and Wayne&#8217;s life that have yet to be brought to life in a new movie. Yes, smaller characters like Scarecrow and Zsasz were fun to see on screen, much like the Riddler, the Penguin, and many other characters could possibly be fun to see in future films. However, Bane and Selina go beyond the smaller characters like Riddler and Penguin, because they have personal connections to both Bruce Wayne and Batman that can allow the plot to get more personal to the hero.</p>
<p>As for the limited CGI that Steve suggested would be needed to bring Bane to life on screen, I don&#8217;t agree. It&#8217;s only the artists whose styles were already unrealistic and highly stylized who drew Bane as being inhumanly huge in the days when he used the venom steroid. More realistic artists, like Graham Nolan, illustrated Bane as just a really big and muscular guy, but still perfectly realistic in size:</p>
<p><a href="http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4977/bane22go5.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/4977/bane22go5.jpg</a></p>
<p><a href="http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/713/bane21ee7.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/713/bane21ee7.jpg</a></p>
<p>And even some artists, like Norm Breyfogle, whose art style *wasn&#8217;t* very realistic had enough sense to know that Bane wasn&#8217;t the size of the Hulk:</p>
<p><a href="http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1755/bane2je4.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://img235.imageshack.us/img235/1755/bane2je4.jpg</a></p>
<p>Black Mask is another character who I could see coming to life in Christopher Nolan&#8217;s world. I wouldn&#8217;t complain if I saw him as the main villain in the next movie. However, my preference would still be for Bane and Catwoman as the major villain/anti-hero for the film.</p>
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		<title>By: reuben</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-122760</link>
		<dc:creator>reuben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 15:49:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-122760</guid>
		<description>Well since johnny depp is confirmed then the joker is very plausible. But I dont think catwoman will work in the Nolan universe unless it is Bruce Wayne&#039;s love interest gone wrong or an abid fan or something but that would not bea very good move on the nolan brother&#039;s depiction of the batman franchise, it would come across as another run of the mill blockbuster and wont have the same effect as the Dark Knight did.

We need to feel an emotional bond with Bruce Wayne for this last one as the series has delved into the batman side of it (remember batman is nothing without Bruce Wayne and vice versa). Yes the black mask is a skull-like character, but he is completely different to the Nolan depiction of Harvey Dent. The only tie would be in the fact that his mask is in the shape of the skull but the origins of the black mask is an interesting plot to work on.

Forget a female villain anyways, there are only a handful of female characters in this series and they all see to die.

I was thinking the ventriloquist would be good in the way he can manipulate people to do his biddings</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well since johnny depp is confirmed then the joker is very plausible. But I dont think catwoman will work in the Nolan universe unless it is Bruce Wayne&#8217;s love interest gone wrong or an abid fan or something but that would not bea very good move on the nolan brother&#8217;s depiction of the batman franchise, it would come across as another run of the mill blockbuster and wont have the same effect as the Dark Knight did.</p>
<p>We need to feel an emotional bond with Bruce Wayne for this last one as the series has delved into the batman side of it (remember batman is nothing without Bruce Wayne and vice versa). Yes the black mask is a skull-like character, but he is completely different to the Nolan depiction of Harvey Dent. The only tie would be in the fact that his mask is in the shape of the skull but the origins of the black mask is an interesting plot to work on.</p>
<p>Forget a female villain anyways, there are only a handful of female characters in this series and they all see to die.</p>
<p>I was thinking the ventriloquist would be good in the way he can manipulate people to do his biddings</p>
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		<title>By: Steve</title>
		<link>http://bifsniff.com/film-tv/the-next-batman-villain/comment-page-1#comment-122639</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Oct 2008 01:35:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://bifsniff.com/?p=1389#comment-122639</guid>
		<description>Last post, then I gotta get away from this subject. Ultimately, it will be up to the Nolans and Goyer. It will probably be a villain we won&#039;t expect, with an actor or actress we never mentioned. No one expected Ledger was going to be The Joker. So we&#039;ll see. This is who I would look at if the casting decision was up to me. I believe in Nolan&#039;s &quot;reality-based&quot; vision and so far it&#039;s worked. 

Nolan&#039;s Gotham City

So far...

R&#039;as al Ghul - Liam Neesan
Scarecrow - Cillian Murphy
Victor Zsasz - Tim Booth
The Joker - the late Heath Ledger. Joker could be a figure in the shadows, and/or a voice actor, in later installments.
Harvey &quot;Two-Face&quot; Dent - Aaron Eckhart

Upcoming films?

Some of these actors were part of past Nolan projects anyway, so that would up the chances for some of these names.

The Riddler - Adrian Brody, Giovanni Ribisi, or Jared Leto 
The Penguin - Toby Jones
Catwoman - Kate Beckinsale
Black Mask - Javier Bardem
Hush - Guy Pearce
Deadshot - Hugh Jackman
Hugo Strange - Brian Cox
The Ventriloquist and Scarface - Joe Pantoliano or Robin Williams
Talia al Ghul - Megan Fox, Camilla Belle
Lady Shiva - Zhang Ziyi, Gong Li, Lucy Lui
David Cain - Ray Stevenson</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last post, then I gotta get away from this subject. Ultimately, it will be up to the Nolans and Goyer. It will probably be a villain we won&#8217;t expect, with an actor or actress we never mentioned. No one expected Ledger was going to be The Joker. So we&#8217;ll see. This is who I would look at if the casting decision was up to me. I believe in Nolan&#8217;s &#8220;reality-based&#8221; vision and so far it&#8217;s worked. </p>
<p>Nolan&#8217;s Gotham City</p>
<p>So far&#8230;</p>
<p>R&#8217;as al Ghul &#8211; Liam Neesan<br />
Scarecrow &#8211; Cillian Murphy<br />
Victor Zsasz &#8211; Tim Booth<br />
The Joker &#8211; the late Heath Ledger. Joker could be a figure in the shadows, and/or a voice actor, in later installments.<br />
Harvey &#8220;Two-Face&#8221; Dent &#8211; Aaron Eckhart</p>
<p>Upcoming films?</p>
<p>Some of these actors were part of past Nolan projects anyway, so that would up the chances for some of these names.</p>
<p>The Riddler &#8211; Adrian Brody, Giovanni Ribisi, or Jared Leto<br />
The Penguin &#8211; Toby Jones<br />
Catwoman &#8211; Kate Beckinsale<br />
Black Mask &#8211; Javier Bardem<br />
Hush &#8211; Guy Pearce<br />
Deadshot &#8211; Hugh Jackman<br />
Hugo Strange &#8211; Brian Cox<br />
The Ventriloquist and Scarface &#8211; Joe Pantoliano or Robin Williams<br />
Talia al Ghul &#8211; Megan Fox, Camilla Belle<br />
Lady Shiva &#8211; Zhang Ziyi, Gong Li, Lucy Lui<br />
David Cain &#8211; Ray Stevenson</p>
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